Dear Jesus, I Still Have Questions (Edition 1)
Yanking Laz and Jesus Out of Heaven and Why is There a Hell?
Welcome to a new series. Turns out, going to Heaven doesn’t answer all the questions after all (or at least all of Curious Julie’s questions). :-)
Q1 - Didn’t Lazarus grieve being plopped back on earth after four glorious days in Heaven?
Those of us in Heaven for a short time mourn returning to earth, so I can’t imagine what Laz felt. I wonder if he complained! Of course his sisters, Mary and Martha, felt overjoyed, but no matter how much they rejoiced, he surely felt a bit morose. Were their parents alive? I don’t think the scripture mentions them, but I could be mistaken.
Most folks who’ve been to Heaven have trouble sticking the landing gear back on Earth. My family can vouch—they waved at me like I was in another galaxy. (“Earth to Julie!”) I set a personal best for ignored texts and emails. If you’re new here, you can peek at my recovery journals for the whole recovery saga.
Q2- Jesus, where did you go?
Were you in hell for your three days of physical death? Or did you go Home to see Pops and chill out by the river, only to then receive partial marching orders back to earth?
The time between your death and resurrection has been a topic of discussion among people for centuries. Scripture gives us glimpses, but not a full chronological record, so I must study and prayerfully interpret.
I see two primary perspectives: that you went to Hell, or that you traveled immediately to Heaven like I did. Then a possible third. Finally, one that seems more reasonable based on my knowledge and experience.
View 1: You Went to Hell
These back up the gone-to-hell mentions:
Ephesians 4:9 — “He descended into the lower parts of the earth.”
1 Peter 3:18–19 — He preached/made proclaimation to the “spirits in prison.”
Acts 2:27 (quoting Psalm 16:10) — “because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead.”
Traditional Apostles’ Creed — “He descended to the dead/hell.”
Summary: You went downstairs (but perhaps not the real Hell — more like Hades/Purgatory?). You proclaimed victory over sin and death and possibly announced deliverance to some other dead folks. Your descent did not continue your suffering, but became a triumphant declaration of victory.
View 2: You Went to Heaven (Paradise) Immediately Like Me!
Pulled from the collective brainwave:
Luke 23:43 — “Today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
Luke 23:46 — “Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.”
John 19:30 — “It is finished.”
2 Corinthians 5:8 — Believers are present with the Lord after death.
Summary: Your work of redemption was fully completed on the cross. Therefore, you headed directly into the Father’s presence, as promised to the repentant thief. Verses about “descending” refer to your birth, incarnation and burial—not a literal spiritual journey.
View 3: Combination Plate
Some seem to believe both are true. They feel your spirit entered Heaven with the Father, and that you also preached triumph over the spiritual realm, fulfilling 1 Peter 3:18-20.
What Have I Learned?
So, as usual, I want to present a view you probably won’t find elsewhere. Kind of a 3, but kind of not.
Jesus, due to what I learned while with you and from researching other trusted Heaven experiences, I know that you can proclaim to people in Hell without being in Hell because you have done that. Ivan Tuttle experienced your proclamation while he was in hell. You bellowed, “It is not his time yet. His mother has been praying for him since he was a little boy. You must release him now—I made a promise!”1
I’ve heard a hypothesis that the Holy Spirit cannot be in hell. However, the Holy Spirit only came to indwell Christians after the resurrection. And check out this verse: Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there. (Psalm 139:7–8) David spoke the truth by the Spirit—but perhaps full understanding came later through Christ.
Jesus, I suspect you always held the Holy Spirit within you. The Trinity was also present from the beginning. But did good ‘ole HS leave your body temple when you arrived as a baby? The HS was obviously very involved in your conception (Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:18–20), but did He then vacate?
I don’t think so.
The scriptures indicate that even though you were “all God and all man,” you filled up with the Holy Spirit at your baptism for ministry. The Bible does speak of being filled or anointed a second time, as He provided to me a couple of months ago. But did I also hold the Holy Spirit before that as a believer? Of course.
Luke 3:21–22 — At Jesus’ baptism: “the Holy Spirit descended on Him in bodily form like a dove.”
Luke 4:1 — “Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, left the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness.”
If you always retained the Holy Spirit, and even enjoyed a second-time filling, was ascension into hell even possible? Perhaps not, according to those who feel the HS can’t land or reside in Hell. Of course, we know God can make anything possible.
When Ephesians 4:10 says, ‘He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe’, we must consider the original text. And it appears to mean not the “lower regions of the earth” but the “lower regions which are the earth.” No Hell about it.
I suspect that during this physical human death, you proclaimed to the souls in Hell without actually descending there. Perhaps a hovering pit stop on the way to Heaven. Maybe to let Satan know (he is not omniscient, after all) of the completed deed—sin now atoned, should people choose to accept that.
I’ve mentioned that I don’t read a lot of Hell accounts, but after brain-devouring B.W. Melvin’s Heaven Book (God really used it to bring back some of my Heaven memories which you will read in my Heaven book and future posts/books), I decided to skim Melvin’s Hell Book and ended up reading it almost in full (skipped some of the earth part).
A fascinating and educational read, although I don’t recommend reading it at night. :-) And yes, I’ve met this gentlemen in person, heard him share and have exchanged individual conversation with him. He is legit and Jesus-filled/focused.
This Hell book is the most comprehensive and true accounts that I am aware of. Melvin met with Jesus first before being sent there, and Jesus told him during his experience to keep repeating Jesus’ name and title. He did, throughout, for as long as he could. And Jesus spoke to B.W. while he toured Hell, but check this out—when Jesus sent those thoughts and Bible verses, everyone heard them.
The demons grew agitated at the voice, sometimes shrank back, and even covered their ears at times. The “head honcho” often lingering at the sidelines left the area when Jesus chose to speak. (Luke 17:10)
I’m not passing out a spoiler alert, but know that when B.W. was truly at the end of his rope, Jesus physically showed up. Later, He also showed B.W. a “pocket/cave” of beautiful scenery near Heaven but not in Heaven, and said, “What you see in the distance is reserved only for the rare. It once was, was not, but still remains there, reserved for those, like Abraham, who found faith. It remains. Those there await the final verdict call. It is a place of peace and rest but not for all, only the rare…” 2
Melvin wonders if this might help explain Luke 16:23 when another Lazarus, in torment in Hades, looks up and sees and talks to Abraham.
Q3- How is Hell Even Possible?
If you have ever wondered how there can be a Hell and how our merciful Lord can send people there, I recommend Melvin’s book. It was truly eye-opening for me.
NEXT IN THIS SERIES: Dear Jesus, How did it change Heaven to have you on earth for 30+ years? Or did it?
PAID subscribers, you can look forward to your paid-only content, with excerpts of the upcoming Heaven book, in a couple of weeks. :-)
“A Journey to Hell, Heaven and Back” by Ivan Tuttle, Destiny Image Publishers, 2020, page 65 (Paperback).
“A Land Unknown: Hell’s Dominion” by B.W. Melvin, Xulon Press 2005, page 164 (Kindle).
All verses are NIV version. Links are affiliate and allow me some pennies to help fund my Heaven book obsession.
I believe that upon death the spirit or consciousness is — finally! — 100 percent liberated from the purely cerebrally based anxiety, agitation and contempt that may have actually blighted much of its physical existence. Therefore, free of the corporeal shell, the soul may be wondering, ‘Why was I so angry, so much of the time? Oh, the things I said!... I really hope I didn't do damage while I was there’. ...
A few decades ago, I learned from two Latter Day Saints missionaries that their church’s doctrine teaches that the biblical ‘lake of fire’ meant for the truly wicked actually represents an eternal spiritual burning of guilt over one’s corporeal misdeeds. Bemused, I thought and said: “That’s it? Our punishment is our afterlife's guilty conscience?”
During the many years since then, however, I’ve discovered just how formidable intense guilt can be. I’ve also considered and decided that our brain's structural/chemical flaws are what we basically are while our soul is confined within our physical, bodily form. The human soul may be inherently good on its own; but trapped within the physical body, notably the corruptible brain, oftentimes the soul’s purity may not be able to shine through.
Thus, upon the multi-murderer's physical death, not only would they be 100 percent liberated from the anger and hate that blighted their physical life; their spirit or consciousness would also be forced to exist with the presumably unwanted awareness of the immense amount of needless suffering they personally had caused.
Then again, maybe the human soul goes where it belongs or where it feels comfortable and right — be it hell’, ‘heaven’, somewhere in between, etcetera. This concept was suggested in a very interesting 1987 radio-broadcast sermon titled “A Bird’s Eye View of Hell”, given by a renowned preacher. I wrote a piece of fiction titled Not What It Was Supposed To Be [originally called That Other Place] that's largely themed on this premise.
P.S. If corporeal death totally relieves us from time, a.k.a. all-encompassing physical motion, there should be no boredom in the afterlife, perhaps even while playing the harp.
This was fascinating to read, Julie. You write with such curiosity and tenderness toward mystery.